#19: The Last Word.

THREAD BEGAN, November 9th, 2004
A little Blog closure...

BOB: Well, it's over.
It seems that post-election participation is dwindling and will soon become nothing more than Jay practicing being a lawyer on me. So, I am calling for ONE LAST POST.
Please tell me your favorite Blog moment: maybe the most profound thing that was said...maybe the stupidest. Any regrets? Any concessions? Any lessons learned?
I’d like everyone to say something! (You have 84,000 words to pick through!)
Anyhow, I’d like to that genuinely thank everyone for participating during this turbulent election year and I’ll look you up in mid-2007 for another round (If I don't see you in the Valley before then). I’ll post my final words shortly.

CHUCK: Bob, your points about others in our discussion not making concessions. That is why i have just quit responding.
And my feelings were confirmed this weekend when I met a Bush campaign volunteer. The 2 of us got along well, but we were told by mutual friends to not discuss politics, because we would kill eachother. Well at about 3am the inevitable argument started. We yelled about the validity of Iraq. We were pretty lighthearted about it, because we both agreed we were emotional and mentally drained from it all. So then I made my claim (which i made in our discussions) that the corporate media is one of the reasons Bush won. And something amazing happened.......HE AGREED. This same kid that i yelled at/with for an hour and disagree w/ all of his political values......and HE AGREED. It made me feel sane. And it reminded me that the discussion we had here, while stimulating at times, involved too much unbending compromise by the conservatives. (which was thoroughly illustrated by bob's email) Additionally, while i am sure he is busy, I really find it unacceptable that Pete randomly comes in w/ all sorts of claims and rhetoric, then when i spend a long time giving a detailed response.....he says nothing.
I regret ever getting personal. Just because it makes me look like a dick. I do personally think people sounded like idiots, plenty, but i should not act like some superior asshole. Plus, I was wrong and inaccurate plenty of times, so i regret acting like a know-it-all.
FUNNIEST MOMENT: I re-read the blog. Viscione says Bush won the first debate. That is the funniest thing ever. If you ever need an example of a man blinded by his unknowing love of the republicans, its a person think Bush won the first debate.
Overall, good times. I would hope the website can stay afloat, and we can just post stuff in the comments section at the bottom, because this stuff still matters. I am going to try to step back for a few months, and really just follow iraq with optimism. And when bush gets going early next year with his radical domestic agenda, the 50 Million Plus that voted for Kerry will have to scrap and battle to keep things under control.
One final thought. Most of our discussion has been essentially about national security. Well, New York City (a city w/ a GOP mayor and governor) was the location of the biggest terror attack ever killing 3000, and continue to be the most threatened city in our country. And 85% voted for Kerry.

BEN: PROFOUND- well i would say my electoral college prediction - because it was pretty much dead on (except New Mexico, which i changed at the last minute on my website) - and saying a month ago bush would win on moral issues because that is what most rural voters care about - not the war or the economy. i was laughed off here and elsehwere. well the "dumb red state hicks" came through after all for us. democrats always said they would win the turnout battle and i disagreed because of those red staters.
STUPIDEST- bob hewitt saying he wanted more american troops to die in Iraq then having to backtrack after creating a firestorm. sorry bob
CONCESSIONS- i couldnt push people around with my facts like i could in the winter and spring - because the other side starting learning their talking points. many of you were much more formidable in responding to me than i expected - not because i think i am smarter, but because i didnt think you knew what you were talking about. you did, and sometimes you got me. though not often
for myself, nothing is over. i cant take a day off - we already have fights to worry about in our party (who will chair the senate judicary cmte) to pending supreme court nominations and I am already looking at the 2006 senate races. somewhere, i know someone just like me on the other side is doing the same - and i dont want to be caught flat footed.
as i have done here, i wont be afriad to call out bush when i think he is doing wrong - for instance i am still against the federal ban on gay marriage - the states seem to be handling it just fine. i hope he doesnt go down that road. i am not pro gay, but i am pro not tampering with the constitution.
however, i am much more interested in the question of why people voted why they did, voting pattern shifts, and demographic and migration changes than i am the actual governance.
it was a good run, but I knew we would win. bottom line is Kerry was not a winning candidate, and since the 1994 Republican revolution the Democrats have been devoid of good candiates on a national level - basically because they have no southern governors that are decent. 2008 looks like they might have a chance - but they have to nominate the right person - if yall nomiate HRC she will go down in flames like Kerry did. You cant write off the entire south of the country and expect to win - and she wont come close to winning any of southern states.

KYLE: My favorite blog moment was said by Viscione in the first thread: "Kyle, Here is an example of a "luxury afforded to people who failed due to their own poor choices,".......The three strikes and your out policy."
Stupid - i'd like to be taken off the conservative poll and be placed in a new section labeled "Libertarian." - Jay. I say stupid because he was so pro-Bush.
Profound - ABRAMOVICH: ALL OF THIS IS IRRELEVENT. WE WON. BUSH CHENEY '04
I have no regrets about the race. I supported John Kerry and don't apologize for it. I hope you all are right about GWB. I will be happy to continue to discuss the issues of the day in blog forums or at after hours parties at John Sammartano's apartment where the conservatives in the room can be indentified as the ones not wearing a shirt. Bob and Jay, thanks for running this thing. Zelin and Hewitt... safe travels and we'll see you when you get back.

JAY: i was "so pro bush" on one issue and one issue only (terrorism). does that mean i'm conservative? no. in war time i think the last person we want running our country is a "far lefter." on most of the other issues i sided w/ the democrats.
so, what does jay think is the most stupid statment on the blog: People have criticized me for my statement, "i'm not a conservative." i have pointed out time and time again why i'm not, and you still give me that label. what do i have to do, actually turn gay, get married to a dude, kill a few babies, and start my own stem cell research lab? how do you label someone a conservative or liberal? i'd like to say on their stances on a majority of the issues. if you ACTUALLY LOOK at my stances, what is my label?
maybe if the democrats ran w/ a moderate, or someone who could make a decision, or someone who didn't contradict themselves on the most important issue i'd be labeled a democrat.

MANEY: Well, my response will be simple as usual. For me I think it is pretty funny how everyone went at each other. I could only imagine what it would have been like if we all were at a bar. For me the most important thing I got out of this was the information. At work once in a while I could get online and see what was going on, but not a lot. Then after work I just wanted to relax, so reading everyone's e mail was really informative. Hell, I even voted this election when I did not plan on it. I just felt to guilty if I did not. I was more informed on this election than the past two 00 and 96 by far. On top of that I have watched over 6 documentaries about this election too. So me voting was my highlight. Take care everyone.

KYLE: Jay, I wasn't trying to rip on you or tell you what you think. I just can't recall an instance during the course of our discussion where you didn't defend the President. If you will recall on Saturday during our "mock debate" you were on the conservative side of the room. I don't know if I can hold that against you because were were all pretty schnockered and you and Maney were rock'in out.

JAY: true true. and we definitely were rockin out. all of our debates focused around iraq. i don't think we ever divulged into social issues. on the social side, as long as it doesn't hurt me or anyone else, do what you want.
For real (my reply to kyle aside), the two things that stood out to me:
1. Bob claiming he was never against the war in Afghanistan. I specifically remember him and Patty teaming up on me at Arnies about how innocent women and children will be killed and it's just wrong. I replied with something like you'll always have casualties and with the technology we have today those casualties in Afghanistan will be limited.
2. The missing weapons: Some people tried to argue that even if the weapons were taken prior to the U.S. going in, it's still Bush's fault. These are the same people who thought we should never go in. They're contradicting themselves. Sjould we have gone in and secure the weapons while we were giving them time to comply w/ the resolutions? I don't understand their logic. Did you want us to go in or not?

SAMMY: The best thing about this blog would have to be Maney. Maney was the key to this blog. When things would get hot and heavy, Maney would chime in with a question of pulling out or wearing a condom. You gotta admit Maney's timing was perfect.
Stupidest thing- I would have to say anything Nugent posted. No, I am kidding, Nugent had great moments, and his words had me so lost that I could only agree with him. Take it as a good thing Nugent.
The Real Stupidest thing- It would have to be one of the last postings about the pentagon crash. Their was obviously an airplane, lives were lost, their was no missile. I would like to thank Jay for providing websites and sources to prove this. I must admit the little conspiracy theory video was entertaining, but I would never acknowledge it.
Concession- I hope their are no hard feelings held, things did get personal, and I'd hate for anything said to apply to us in a social setting.
Regrets- The one thing I regret the most is that I did not access to my e-mail during the day. Most of the time I am out in the field at work. And when I did get to a computer Jay and Chuck already had posted 20 things and went through 5 different topics. It was hard to keep up. And things I wanted to discuss already had been said or new topics took over.
One last thing, I have to say that I loved this. At the Blogs highest point I could not get enough. All I had on my mind was the last thing posted. And when I got home from work, I was sure I was going to reply to at least one posting. I also think we should keep in contact and argue over the nations current events.

DAN: After having read several of your posts, I have to say, there is some weird deja vu, I'm leaving my best friends for college, vibe going on. Seriously, it's kinda scary. I feel like I'll never see any of you again....some for good reasons!!!
All joking aside, I am proud to be part of this blog and have the opportunity to enjoy a more mature dialog between us, and to be "adults" with you guys. I'm not saying that getting wasted the night before T-giving, and acting like idiots isn't great either, but this was nice change of pace. I am so impressed with the participation and the emotion (whether irate or in be in agreement), behind what each of us has written. I have learned a great deal from each of you, your characters, and your beliefs. Some of which, I may never have had the opportunity to discover and exchange views. I, like Sammartano, have come home from work and gone directly to my computer to check the newest postings, and honestly, looked forward to the responses, as well as writing my own. Thank you all for participating.
Profound - Maybe not the MOST profound thing said, but I really liked my e-mail in response to Hewitt's claim on how minimal the troops being sent by other members of the Coalition was a sad showing of military efforts. I retorted by putting into perspective the amount of soldiers being sent as compared to the total amount of soldiers in their military, as well as expressing that other efforts were being made through sending medicine, food, textiles, etc. - Blog #2: Coalition of the Willing?
Stupidest - Zelin's claim on how Barbra Streisand was singled out as a threat during that 9-11 internet video I told everyone to watch. He even used the word, "Fuck." Personally, I think it is because she is a Jew and Zelin feels he needs to stick up for his people...I commend that. - Blog #2: Coalition of the Willing?
Concession - I admit now to Bush's failure during the debates. At best he won one of them. Though, I couldn't crack under all the pressure. I had to stand strong. I was like Keer Murphy's parents at a Revere football game...when Keer did bad on extra point, his parents still rooted for him. Well, I did the same for Bush.
Regrets - My only regret is not responding to different issues, here and there, for what ever reason seemed plausible at the time, namely, laziness. Many issues went untouched. Some more important than others.
May I be the first to say, this is the end of an election, I hope it isn't the end of our Blog. There are many thing in which we can argue. Politics just happened to be convenient. I truly hope it isn't until mid 2007 until we Blog again. I vote to keep The Minutemen Blog going.....It's officially 1-0, for continuation. (Just think, 150,000 more of these "votes," and we may have had ourselves a new President......my one and only low-blow to you Dems).

ZELIN: Hello my Ohio brothers,
Well, I guess it is all over. Just when I had started to get comfortable taking direct shots at my friends. So sad. Really, was great having this dialogue and I learned quite a bit about the issues on the opposing side. Upon leaving San Francisco, I always said that I truly wanted to know what the other side felt about this election, and now I feel that I have somewhat of an understanding.
Favorite Blog Moment: I guess I would have to say Maney as well. At times, I would open up my inbox and see 25 emails from Jay. I would often delete them (sorry Jay) and go right to Maney’s to see what today’s breaking issue was about. Thanks Maney, for keeping us abreast on the real important issues.
Stupidest Blog Moment: All of us, for thinking for a second that we truly knew what was going on in the ground in Iraq. I believe it is good to discuss the decisions our nation made and what has come out of it, but to start making assumptions about how the Iraqi’s feel and their sentiments towards this whole war is senseless. I just find it hard to believe, how a bunch of mid to upper class Ohio boys can make assumptions about Iraqi citizens.
Regrets: none
Concessions: No matter how hard I try, I realize that I am not able to view politics from both political sides. I do make an attempt to understand where Republicans are coming from, but often find it very difficult.
Lessons learned: Interesting what you don’t know about your friends until you begin discussing politics.
Final Statement: Congrats to the Republicans. You got your guy back in office and I truly am impressed with their campaign. It still amazes me how so many people who honestly would have benefited more from a democratic platform, where convinced to vote for Bush. Honestly, I do feel very emotional about the outcome of this election and am scared of the direction our nation is going in. I can’t help but view this increasing conservatism and unilateralism as a step backward. I truly hope that I am proven wrong and that these next four years are prosperous and successful, not only for our nation, but the rest of the world. I always consider myself a patriot, even more now, that I am living out of the U.S., but I will do my best to represent the America I know and love, which I am slowly learning, is a hell of lot different from the one many other people love.
I leave you with an article summing up some of my views:
http://www.theonion.com/news/index.php?issue=4045